Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

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Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  RaF on Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:32 pm

The thread that tends to start a shitstorm. So instead follow these guidelines and stick to the topic


Please share your opinion, but DO NOT PREACH IT; nobody cares to hear a semi-religious banter on this game
1. Which one you use, and why? Is your choice map dependent?
2. How much do you think a Spy should use his gun and why?
3. Is aim even worth practicing towards or do you think that time spent practicing stabbing and all its difficulties will benefit a Spy much more?
4. If you play comp, then state so. You don't have to include a level/division if you don't want to
5. If you have an elite pro gaming 1337 mouse then has it helped you?
6. Don't be an a-hole

And for my answers of course
1. 99% of the time Ambassador, Revolver only if I'm desperate/lack confidence in my aim. Situation dependent but will run amby on all maps at least at some point in a match. Letranger only occasionally as I do kinda consider it as a crutch as it only limits a good players' aim and helps if your cloak movement/management and timing are not perfect. Useful occasionally though  tongue 
I think that burst damage; damage at the right time is what Spy is all about and I think that the Ambassador is perfect for this purpose. Revolver is incredibly powerful though and few can use the amby to ever match the revolver in even 1v1 fights with other classes but for me Spy has never been about even fights anyways  Razz 

2. If I had the aim I would run gunspy alot of the time simply because I think it's much more effective as teams and their awareness keeps increasing. The perfect combo is (as everything Spy) IMO
situational but a Spy should be able to Run The Gun™️ if needed and strong aim is incredibly useful.

3. Aim is worth a lot of practice and will help you all other games as well, at least from my experience. After around 200 hours of Amby-pubbing I can pretty much beat or at least challenge very good players in other games just because I have the "aim". Aim IMO takes more practice than stabbing (not counting in timing/positioning since those are never perfect and are required for doing anything as a Spy) but both should be trained. (MGE and Walkway I consider pretty terrible as a measurement or a training tool of any kind)

4. Do play comp. And honestly, no offence to the full-pubbers here but I don't take into account pubbing in almost any of my discussions ever, since I consider pubbing as a Spy extremely easy as your hours grow. It's enjoyable though  Cool 

5. Had a SteelSeries Xai before and that was absolutely trash due to its built-in sensor acceleration; now have the Deathadder 2013 and I can say that for my grip and feel it is close to perfect.

pls no kill

Lets be mature enough for this to work.
And now, don't kill each other either and give me your opinions!
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  SLASh on Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:51 pm

No shitstorm, hopefully.

1. I try to use it according to the map. Like Badwater first. Even tho, i can't aim well with Ambassador, i give it a shot, since i can't lose anything, but i main revolver.

2. Depends. Its up to people's choice, but its good if you can aim well. It can be only useful, in any situation, but in my opinion if you balance it you can play better. 50% knife 50% pistol, is the good.

3. Worth practising, if somebody wants to. But no need to tryhard. Just have to play. Everybody will get better by time.

4. No. Sad

5. I do have. No difference imo. A very cheap one. Only good point is: Low chance to break it.


Last edited by SLASh on Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  Sqrt(-1) on Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:02 pm

1. Map dependent. Big map = l'etranger, and I go for less gunspy, more stabbing. Otherwise, amby or revolver, depending on how I'm feeling with my aim.
2. As much as you can. All of those 18, 16, 20 damage chipshots add up.
3. Aim is definitely something worth practicing. I think it's the thing that separates the good spies from the really good spies.
4. Played at steel level.
5. Nope, no special mouse.
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  Villdjack on Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:15 pm

1. All guns are equally good:

  • Amby if i have a good day (since aim will be the factor if i hit headshots or not)
  • Revolver if i have a less good day (aim will also be a big factor here)
  • Letranger if i cant aim (aim will be less of a factor and i will favor my knife more)


2. As long as your playstyle benefits from the usage of your gun, as much as possible.

3. Play the game and learn from your mistakes, you will realise what you need to practise the most.

4. Yes i am spymain

5. SS Kana V2 and Zowie fk


Last edited by Villdjack on Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : 2015)

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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  Almaironn on Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:42 pm

1. Mostly Amby and Revolver, depending on the map (for example lakeside is pretty open so amby, etc.) and also if I feel confident about my aim the day of the match or not.
2. Depends on his playstyle. A spy has multiple methods of being useful and achieving his goal, so if he likes to do it by using the gun more often than others, why not?
3. Yes, aim is worth practising.
4. I played div4/silver.
5. I dont have much experience with different mouses, so... I guess having a shitty mouse with acceleration and smoothing and whoknowswhatothershit will hurt your aim, so get a decent one.

inb4 amby is a straight upgrade if you can aim
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  Carlotso25 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:03 pm

1. I like to use the Amby if the map is open and I have room for error. Such as lakeside, or badwater first cliff, etc. If I fuck up a shot, I got an escape or other options. Makes you less predictable to be popping off headshots from a distance at first, then decloaking and dropping the medic the next. I prefer the Revolver for situations I know I'm gonna be up in the enemies face whether I want to be or not. Like Viaduct. The only real safe place to Snipe imo is on the cliff, and a Soldier or Scout can ruin that quick, so I prefer Revolver on maps like those to suit my really aggressive decloak style. As for L'Etranger, I run it mostly on 5CP to maintain positioning with cloak, or to be a little more aggressive with it. I don't see it as a crutch, cuz you're trading a fair bit of killing power. Useful for comming.

2. I think good gun usage is a boon in high level play. Spy is so powerful with his gun because he almost always has first shot advantage. It can win you a lot of fights. If you can shoot, and you know it will kill him, go for it. It's safer, quicker and works at many ranges. In any case, I support gun usage over trickstabbing anyhow. If you're getting airblasted, just shoot. Don't try for the silly strafe airstab unless you know you'd be 100% fucked otherwise. Consistency like that I think really improves you as a Spy instead of the trickstab.

3. Aim is very important. Perhaps a little less important on Spy than other classes because you've got the luxury of picking your targets easily with decent positioning, but still important.

4. Yup. Though I find pubbing useful for aiming purposes. More things to shoot and whatnot.

5. Run the Deathadder 2013. It's a big improvement over my last mouses. Except Synapse. Fuck Synapse.
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  RaF on Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:22 pm

Carlotso25 wrote:...Except Synapse. Fuck Synapse.

+1

Keep them comin!
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  adysky on Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:00 pm

1. amby only for pub gunspy/big maps. ltranger only for campin with CaD and spycicle callin stuff at start of the round. revolver 95% of time, just love it.
2. Depends on persons opinion and situation. I myself find using my gun more often with DR and small maps.
3. Yes, thats all
4. played in plat one season and then in lower divs, now main explosive classes.
5. Hey, there is difference between wireless mouse from TESCO and 8000dpi razer mouse. My improved a lot when i upgraded my mouse
6. ok Sad
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  PaNissanic on Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:49 pm


1. I use whatever to suit my playstyle at the right moment. If the map is more open, I'd run amby just to help kill snipers from some hiding spot or something. I'd run revolver more on enclosed maps with a lot of corners or dropdowns, because you can easily just pelt someone to death from the first shot. I also just run l'etranger on more open maps like 5cp with the CnD or Invis just because you can get into enemy lines much smoother.

2. Depends, we all know some spies have solid aim on their gun and can really support their team that way. If you are good with aiming and can dish out a good amount of damage to help, then go for it. If not, then the knife as primary and revolver as a last ditch is always useful. I prefer using the guns as a last resort, if you're caught out by the enemy. That being said....

3. It's always a good idea to practice aim just so you can live that encounter with a demoman spamming pipes or a soldier that missed a stab on. Spy is not all about xXtrixtabsXx

4. Nope. Just pubs and lobbies with friends on the rare occasion that I want to evaluate my skills.

5. Nope. Just a normal Gearhead Laser mouse that was on discount from 30$ to 12$ USD

6. I do what I want x3 Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil 
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  Trîp/Reggie on Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:00 pm

1. n/a, I rarely ever use my gun unless there is a distinct need to, for example a sniper that's standing still and the only way to get to him is to go past a Pyro, that's the time that the gun comes out. If I'm ever using it, which I normally don't, then it's the Diamondback, the crits are fun even without the new buff. If I wanna headshot things, I go sniper and do the same thing but better. If I wanna do consistent bodyshots, I don't use the revolver, and instead I go sniper... Or scout, but that's irrelevant

2. I frankly couldn't give the slightest care as to what anyone uses as a gun. If I meet a spy in a battle, 90% of the time I'll run up and shank him to death or run away. Gun battles are awful. Frankly, I rarely ever use my gun as I said, because I much prefer just pushing a shiv into someone's vertebrae.

3. Aim is a very long-winded word. Not in the sense that it has a lot of letters, but that there are so many definitions of the bloody word and situations that it can be applied in, for example direct aim (Shotguns, Scatterguns, Revolvers), precisison aim (Rifles and the Ambassador), projectile aim #1 (rockets, the Bison etc.) and projectile aim #2 (Flares, the Huntsman, the Crossbow, the Sandman etc.) and then finally the Guillotine and Pipes have their own separate part. Aim on a precision weapon is entirely different to direct aim, because of that extra headshot factor, and the preciseness of your movements, which makes it bloody impossible to practise. Direct aim can be practised, although honestly, it's entirely boring, and should be avoided IMO. The best way, for me, to improve your 'aim', is to just play the game. Not in MGE, although that may help it's entirely unrealistic. I find Pubs to be the best, honestly.

4. Used to play in Div 5 in ETF2L (2 seasons), half a UGC season in Steel/Silver, half in Iron (the previous UGC season), and then the Summer UGC season in Steel. I frankly found it a bit boring as Spy, as you have to play Badwater almost inevitably, and I loathe that map as Spy.

5. I use a Logitech M185 Wireless mouse, laser obviously, served me well for a year until I lobbed it at a wall in a Badwater game, which broke. I then went out in half time and bought the Red version.

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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  TheMattgician on Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:38 pm

1. I'm basically in love with the Amby, mostly for the long range abilities. Though I might switch to Revolver if I can't aim. I should consider using l'étranger with the CnD more often.
2. The Amby lets you be active all of the time with its long range ability. Whenever I'm on my team's side, it's gun time. The Revolver helps a lot with buildings when the homewrecker stench is in the air. The main reason I don't use l'étranger is because of how much I use my gun. Overall, guns are useful when you need to get away.
3. I feel that one should practice his aim in pubs by going YER-DR-Amby, or playing sniper and scout. Not using your gun is a waste of potential. However, I think that learning positioning is much more important.
4. I play on TF2Center. It's the closest thing to being in a league.
5. I got a logitech G400 when my old mouse started to spasm. It does help with consistency.
6. But I'm French!
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  SilentNinja on Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:50 pm

Since i´m just a pubspy:
1. Amby and Revolver, most of the times amby, sometimes when i feel not so good Revolver. Not map dependent, dont like L´etranger, neither do i like the CnD. I love aggresive playstyle (DR, Amby, Knife)
2. IMO, the biggest problem of the mayority of spys is that they dont use their gun enough. You cant use your gun enough, seriously, dont underestimate the power of the spy guns, they can shoot out extremely high dmg in a short amount of time if good aim is in your hands.
3. I think its worth practising, as much as stabs are worth, too. But in the end, as a pubspy myself, i dont really "practise" it much, it comes naturally with the gameplay i evolved over the years Wink
4. I dont.
5. I dont really have one, a Logitech GX400? (i believe). I just like the feeling of it in my hands, nothing more Wink
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  pinkrabbit on Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:03 pm

2 + 3 : Aiming as a spy is the most crucial thing to focus on. All top spies can aim. If you take a look at the best spies, a large portion of their kills comes from their gun. Aura, Onv, Bighomer, Lenny, Solid etc. This is simply because a spy who can't aim is a small subset of a spy who can. You should focus on improving your aim rather than trickstabs, always.

Here's why: stabbing people is a luck-based mechanic, because it's dependent on the person you're trying to kill. You can't and shouldn't focus on any aspect that relies on the other person being unaware, in any game. No matter what sport or games you play, you should always focus on improving the areas which are all dependent on YOU. This is why revolver aim is so important: it's purely skilled-based; regardless of the opponents skill level, your aim will not change. But your "ability" to stab will.

So find a sensitivity that's rather low, and keep practicing the aim. Tr_aim and tr_walkway are fantastic ways to do this, plus pubs. Stop trying silly trickstabs. Trickstabs are for spies who can't aim.

The vast majority of spies can't aim, they think it's all about 1337stabs.My advice is to try the revolver. So many spies pick the amby, yet can't aim so they miss every shot and fire more slowly. You need to hit headshots like a demon to make the amby worthwhile. Solid and Lenny are basically the only spies who actually justify its use. If you can't aim like them, there's not much point. If you get consistent aim, you'll be better than 99.9% of spies in the game.
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  Schweppes on Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:01 pm

1. Which one you use, and why? Is your choice map dependent?
I use revolver mostly but the ambassador and l'etranger too. It's map dependent as in I'll never use the ambassador on maps like viaduct but sometimes on badwater, l'etranger for maps I don't constantly want to go out of my way to get ammo packs and revolver as the default choice
2. How much do you think a Spy should use his gun and why?
Whatever works, but rule of thumb for me: If you're confident you can take him down with your primary then go for it instead of waiting for a stab which could be stopped by enemies or failstab. A kill is a kill, no need to be flashy about it.
3. Is aim even worth practicing towards or do you think that time spent practicing stabbing and all its difficulties will benefit a Spy much more?
Why not both? Good spies are confident with their aim and have good movement for the stabs. I for long neglected my revolver mostly until I got back into the game, along with my new mouse. My aim improved and I found that I use the revolver a lot more now, it's a very good weapon.
4. If you play comp, then state so. You don't have to include a level/division if you don't want to
Yes
5. If you have an elite pro gaming 1337 mouse then has it helped you?
I used to play for 3 years with a cheap mouse and did fine, until I got a deathadder, so i'd say it's mostly muscle memory, though I find tracking is so much easier with this thing. Could be placebo, no clue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
6. Don't be an a-hole
you know I wouldn't  Like a Star @ heaven 
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  Carlotso25 on Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:46 am

pinkrabbit wrote:You need to hit headshots like a demon to make the amby worthwhile.
Debatable. I think that only applies if you're firing your gun nonstop like a gun spy. I can probably hit more with the Revolver than Amby, but I still love to run Amby due to other effects like the long range aspects, scaring opponents, bursting people, etc.
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  RaF on Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:58 am

pinkrabbit wrote:...
So find a sensitivity that's rather low, and keep practicing the aim. Tr_aim and tr_walkway are fantastic ways to do this, plus pubs.

The vast majority of spies can't aim, they think it's all about 1337stabs.My advice is to try the revolver. So many spies pick the amby, yet can't aim so they miss every shot and fire more slowly. You need to hit headshots like a demon to make the amby worthwhile. Solid and Lenny are basically the only spies who actually justify its use. If you can't aim like them, there's not much point. If you get consistent aim, you'll be better than 99.9% of spies in the game.

Tr_aim I can understand for the twitch you can practice there but why would you play tr_walkway to practice aim? Do you mean like with the bots strafing sideways and stuff? Aren't their strafes pre-set and extremely predictable?

Also I agree with Carlotso, you don't have to hit headshots like a demon to make the amby worthwhile; its just all about how often you shoot. I shoot a lot from all ranges from really close to really far which isn't possible with anything other than the headshootergun at least in a useful manner. It's also lovely how if you headshot and kill a medic once or twice, if you are near him and shooting and he has charge, he will often pop it in a shit spot because he fears your -102 health ability :3
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  pinkrabbit on Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:11 am

RaF wrote:

why would you play tr_walkway to practice aim?


You can launch the bots up in the air, it's good for practicing your aim at vertically-changing targets.

Otherwise, yeah, don't use it to practice against the normal bots.
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  SLASh on Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:34 am

pinkrabbit wrote:
RaF wrote:

why would you play tr_walkway to practice aim?


You can launch the bots up in the air, it's good for practicing your aim at vertically-changing targets.

Otherwise, yeah, don't use it to practice against the normal bots.
Oh helou sir. Smile
Then your opinion? Play gunspy on pubservers?
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  frownybrownee on Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:32 am

Amby is good if you can aim
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  pinkrabbit on Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:45 am

SLASh wrote:

Play gunspy on pubservers?

Always, regardless of which watch you use. Once you get your aim to a great level, you start to notice how many more kills become available to you. Pubs are great to practice aim.
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  frownybrownee on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:32 pm

Tr_walkway also uses civilian hitboxes so it's not good for practising aim as the head hitbox locations are different in tr_walkway when compared to actual online games.
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  pinkrabbit on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:46 pm

frownybrownee wrote:Tr_walkway also uses civilian hitboxes so it's not good for practising aim as the head hitbox locations are different in tr_walkway when compared to actual online games.

True. I don't use amby though so there :p
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  frownybrownee on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:50 pm

pinkrabbit wrote:
frownybrownee wrote:Tr_walkway also uses civilian hitboxes so it's not good for practising aim as the head hitbox locations are different in tr_walkway when compared to actual online games.

True. I don't use amby though so there :p

I don't play spy so there. Checkmate bunnyboy
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  SLASh on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:56 pm

pinkrabbit wrote:
SLASh wrote:

Play gunspy on pubservers?

Always, regardless of which watch you use. Once you get your aim to a great level, you start to notice how many more kills become available to you. Pubs are great to practice aim.
Now a little off-topic: And for cloak management? Pubs?
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Re: Revolver and Ambassador and L'etranger and Aim

Post  RaF on Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:52 pm

SLASh wrote:
pinkrabbit wrote:
SLASh wrote:

Play gunspy on pubservers?

Always, regardless of which watch you use. Once you get your aim to a great level, you start to notice how many more kills become available to you. Pubs are great to practice aim.
Now a little off-topic: And for cloak management? Pubs?

I suppose if you have nothing else. Lobbies, mixes, comp.
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