I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

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I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Sneaky on Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:07 pm

I know a lot of spies will disagree with me here but bare with me. (please keep in mind this is all opinion and playstyle based nothing more)

While the Damage tanking aspect of the DR has been drastically nerfed, and the fact 50% of your cloak is gone before you even do anything, I personally prefer the DR in its current state. I find the increased regen speed on your cloak meter combined with the temporary speed gain and fire resistance make the DR much more of an escape weapon than it was before. I believe the DR can and may well be still viable in competitive if it is treated as valve has intended it to be and used in the correct way.

I may end up proving my own theory wrong in the end but who knows, putting this out there to get opinions and other peoples views.

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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Carlotso25 on Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:09 pm

I think it will be viable as well, but Spies such as myself will need to adapt with it. Avoiding straight up 1v1's and focusing on abusing your speed boost with hit and run tactics to be unpredictable I believe will be the key to unlocking the potential of the new DR.

Still, it just ain't the same in pubs no more :c
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Sneaky on Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:14 pm

I was playing skial upward earlier and actually finding that the DR is just as OP if you avoid damage and abuse movement, might just be me tho?

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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Carlotso25 on Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:16 pm

It's still great yeah, but tanking damage was just too much fun. Being able to do the incredibly risky and stupid stuff with no worry was the best. Now you actually have to watch your health and abuse the movement. It's fun, but not the same.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Villdjack on Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:16 pm

Your aim wont get worse just beacuse a unlock that was used in the wrong way was nerfed. I mean you can still tank headshots and the fire res is so overpowered against pyros who cant follow your movement. Combined with the big earner it can be extremely powerful if you have good movement.

i like it

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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Carlotso25 on Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:18 pm

Villdjack wrote:you can still tank a headshot.
ftfy
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Budalaš on Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:21 pm

I also like new DR it fits spies intended role much better (less tanky more sneaky). I'm curious to see reactions from gun heavy spies like evan.
(I'm not a competitive player so take my opinion as such)

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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Nickolaos on Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:27 pm

In my opinion Valve didn't nerf the DR they are just encouraging a more traditional spy play style. Lets face it a low hp stealth class tanking sticky traps, headshots, crockets, etc is pretty ridiculous. I really love what they have done with the new DR and how they buffed the invis watch and CnD. Because the DR is an escape tool it makes it good for getting that one pick and making the invis watch and CnD more viable more often rather than the other way around. I personally LOVE the CnD even before the DR nerf.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  PaNissanic on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:16 pm

Gunspy is still viable, but you can't play too aggressive likr a scout would, unless going for a feign or finishing someone off. But, you could use the speed to get behind the enemy and land easy 102's while your team attacks from the front. Basically you're finding an angle to snipe the team from behind and using dr to get away and find new angles or to regroup with your team.
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Same!

Post  FuzioN on Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:46 am

I also like the new DR...I think Valve wanted to make it more of an escape weapon...but us spies will figure out some way some how to use it to our offensive advantage. I love combo-ing it with the Big Earner and either the l'etranger, amby, or revolver. You basically could either become a sniper running at scout speeds or a spy running at scout speeds or idk some class that doesn't do a lot of damage but could now be running at scout speeds. I'm ramblin'. I'm sorry. I do this when I get around spies. <3

Spy on.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  bl4de on Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:16 pm

I'm in the same position. Personally I couldn't be happier with this update's changes. I love the new DR, it actually makes you think now and not just put it up whenever you would've been dead otherwise. I love the speed buff and it with the new big earner is now one of my two favorite loadouts as spy. (Other being kunai+IW, which, in my opinion, the kunai didn't deserve a buff at all and was already in a perfect position.)
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  bl4de on Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:20 pm

Villdjack wrote:Your aim wont get worse just beacuse a unlock that was used in the wrong way was nerfed. I mean you can still tank headshots and the fire res is so overpowered against pyros who cant follow your movement. Combined with the big earner it can be extremely powerful if you have good movement.

i like it
Exactly my thoughts, I think this is awesome. I hated how the old DR just completely gave spy a way out without having to learn proper movement.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  deezebee on Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:11 pm

Well, maybe it will work out in the end, but I firmly believe that the aggressive DR playstyle was an important part of spy, because it at least offered some sort of variety. Now without the old DR the only playstyles left for you are the really sneaky ones, be it with the IW or CaD. Yes, there can be aggressive IW playstyles, but they cannot be nearly as aggressive and gunspy-heavy as the ones you could have used with the DR. It's just a really unnecessary big nerf. I can already figure out whom Valve had asked about which weapons they should nerf and which ones they should buff: Butthurt 6s elitist solly mains that hate everything that isn't stock.

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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Sneaky on Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:24 pm

deezebee wrote:Well, maybe it will work out in the end, but I firmly believe that the aggressive DR playstyle was an important part of spy, because it at least offered some sort of variety. Now without the old DR the only playstyles left for you are the really sneaky ones, be it with the IW or CaD. Yes, there can be aggressive IW playstyles, but they cannot be nearly as aggressive and gunspy-heavy as the ones you could have used with the DR. It's just a really unnecessary big nerf. I can already figure out whom Valve had asked about which weapons they should nerf and which ones they should buff: Butthurt 6s elitist solly mains that hate everything that isn't stock.

Had I been asked if the DR needed a nerf like this before the update I would have said yes, I guess it all comes down to opinion!

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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Isil on Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:54 pm

I like the new DR, they basically removed the tanking part in favor sneaky escape mechanism, which corresponds to what I think the spy is. Not a fat hoovy. Hovewer, i'd like they reduced the first hit only (something like -90% reduced damage) just to trigger it more often. The speed boost is really fun. Let's see if gunspy can still handle it.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Toast on Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:42 pm

They made it still somewhat viable, but they did the classic valve trick of overnerfing it. It's pathetic to what it was just a couple of days ago, however atleast they didn't fuck it completely. Problem is that the DR is a hard concept to get right. For example, while I do kinda agree with what Isil is saying above about rebuffing it, if you made it absorb the first hit with the classic 90% damage reduction, it would be hilariously overpowered. Take like 10 damage to an attack and then SAN1C away like nub. The speed boost just made it even harder to balance Sad
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  a Woolen Sleevelet on Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:59 pm

replace dead ringer with diamond pickaxe
dig way to safety

in all seriousness though i'm still not liking the change, especially because the big earner does it too.
the big earner used to be shit because the l'etranger did what it did but also didnt take up your knife
the new dr imho is now kinda shit because the kunai exists the new big earner does that but also the hp down is kinda negated by the damage reduction of the stock/ cnd a little bit.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Carlotso25 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:07 pm

I dunno, I thought it was an overnerf at first, but I am beginning to like it now. It's not to the point where you can't adapt to it, and it's still a very good watch imo. It's no longer about getting into 1v1's and tanking, it's about hit & run, and confusing the enemy to where you are by changing your position constantly.

The change is to promote more mobility and sneakiness from Spies, because even though it was the best, let's be honest, it was really stupid tanking up to 1000 damage as a Spy lol.

I don't think this change is anything that Spies can't adapt to, and it will have a good place in competitive all the same.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Selek on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:27 pm

I fully agree with Carlotso. It is obvious Valve doesn't like the tank Spy. The new DR still allows aggressive play, you just have to actually flee from the fight in between and not simply tank 1000 damage by hitting right click.

I would also claim that without the IW damage resistance buff, Big Earner would be too prone to random spam deaths as it was before and thus not as viable. The speed buff is great for chainstabs and escapes, but it does nothing if you can't get your first pick in - a pick which should be worth dying for in most cases, especially in competitive play.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  ElazuL on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:37 pm

Selek wrote:I fully agree with Carlotso. It is obvious Valve doesn't like the tank Spy. The new DR still allows aggressive play, you just have to actually flee from the fight in between and not simply tank 1000 damage by hitting right click.

Except you cannot flee from anything if everything kills you in one hit now. Just a single second of spam in your direction kills you. I really don't agree with how aggressive you can be.
Playing DR revolver myself, I tend to play very close to my opponents and this nerf just erased a whole part of my gameplay because now half the fights I used to pick, i will end up dead in no time.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Carlotso25 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:48 pm

ElazuL wrote:Except you cannot flee from anything if everything kills you in one hit now. Just a single second of spam in your direction kills you. I really don't agree with how aggressive you can be.
Playing DR revolver myself, I tend to play very close to my opponents and this nerf just erased a whole part of my gameplay because now half the fights I used to pick, i will end up dead in no time.

Oh don't overexaggerate. It's not one hit kill, it just means you have to pick your fights better. Of course you're going to die if you decide to try and DR after already picking a fight. DR isn't about taking a 1v1, losing then backing out with it anymore. It's about DRing at the first sign of damage and staying alive constantly.

You can still Revolver gunspy, it just means that you'll have to be more cautious with your health, be more hit and run, and pick your fights better. The extra 3 second speed boost helps with that too.

Honestly, it really isn't that bad. You just have to adapt. To be honest, I still think it is a superb watch and it will still do wonders in HL.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Isil on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:53 pm

Elazul is right, this patch hurts a lot for revolver gunspy, not as much for amby gunspy.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Carlotso25 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:05 pm

It only hurts the Revolver gunspy that would hug enemy faces taking straight 1v1's.

The way I see it, Amby gunspying will be all about using the speed boost to rotate Sniper angles behind the enemy nonstop.

For Revolver gunspying, it will be about using your gun from behind the enemy. You know, sorta like a Spy. The mobility will let you do that, you just need to constantly be abusing hit and run tactics. This will be the kind of DR Spy which will severely annoy people if you stay on the move. You'll be as unkillable as you were before so long as you admit you can die, and just concentrate on DRing at the first sign of you taking more than 50 damage in one hit. The rest will come naturally.


Last edited by Carlotso25 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  ElazuL on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:05 pm

Thats exactly what I mean. It's only viable if you switch to another playstyle. Only trying to do something when you have full hp. Basic DR usage was all about taking some damage to make a feign believable. Now you have to feign right away if you want to have a chance. I like to stay very aggressive while I use my revolver and If I have to fall back everytime I have 100hp I would just be a lot more passive in small maps that were perfectly fitting the usage of DR.
I'm all up for any change if it's balanced, and the speed boost doesnt balance back the DR at all imo.

It was the only way spies had to be close to the enemies, and just missing things like bodyblocking ubers or sticky trap checking is a huge loss for me. I'll try to play differently but after about 30 hours into this new update, I really cannot play like I used to, it makes it a lot less enjoyable for me.
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

Post  Carlotso25 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:15 pm

ElazuL wrote:Thats exactly what I mean. It's only viable if you switch to another playstyle. Only trying to do something when you have full hp. Basic DR usage was all about taking some damage to make a feign believable. Now you have to feign right away if you want to have a chance. I like to stay very aggressive while I use my revolver and If I have to fall back everytime I have 100hp I would just be a lot more passive in small maps that were perfectly fitting the usage of DR.
I'm all up for any change if it's balanced, and the speed boost doesnt balance back the DR at all imo.

It was the only way spies had to be close to the enemies, and just missing things like bodyblocking ubers or sticky trap checking is a huge loss for me. I'll try to play differently but after about 30 hours into this new update, I really cannot play like I used to, it makes it a lot less enjoyable for me.

I think you're underestimating the mobility. It honestly is a lot better than you think it is. You can basically function like a Scout. I have found it to be a pretty fine substitute. I think so long as you focus on that, constantly rotating packs, the enemy will fuck up, and you will achieve the same effect as if you had 1000 health.

Also bodyblocking Ubers tbh was stupid and something that should never have been part of DR, or Spy as a whole to begin with.

I personally find this new DR to be pretty well balanced. The last one didn't necessarily NEED to be changed, but I think this new DR is more inline with what Valve want it to be, and I for one welcome it. The last DR allowed some pretty stupid shit to happen that I don't mind moving on from. (Except in pubs, goodnight sweet prince.)
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Re: I like the new DR, All I'm saying.

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